Talk:Last Orders

Wow, so they've not only announced the title, they also released a plot summary over at Amazon.  

"Not with a bang, but a whimper". TS Eliot. That seems to suggest that this is "the end" of the war and the series (although nothing in the summary explicitly states that Nevermind, I just saw in the opening paragraph that this is the "final installment"--although we could still see a Colonization-style leap or a continuation under a new name like AE and SA, I guess). It also seems to hint that the war will not end with the A-Bomb, but HT will continue to employ the WWI parallels. I'll give everyone else a chance to read the summary before commenting on the substantive points. TR (talk) 16:00, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

My instant instinct reactions:

We always recommend taking the cover copy with a grain of salt. They people who put together those summaries are usually tasked with coming up some way to make the book sound exciting without actually having read the books themselves. TR (talk) 20:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

1. What Jews are fighting in France? Unless Halevy comes back or we get a new POV?

I think someone in Demange's POV was Jewish...? TR (talk) 20:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

I don't recall. Outside of Germany, no idea why it should matter. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Just publisher puffing: "Hey, check it out. Jews are in better shape than OTL." TR (talk) 17:01, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

2. Nazis pushing Hungarians and Romanians to fill the gaps in their lines? Why not the bloody Poles??? What was the whole point of having them ally with Germany if you won't use them? I guess HT wants to make sure the Germans lose.

See the above re: grain of salt. That may mean Poland is doing "something" or it may mean that the person who wrote the summary just forgot to mention or didn't know to mention Poland. TR (talk) 20:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

I agree, Poland really needed more of a starring role than it's gotten. Turtle Fan (talk)

3. Why would Adolf declare war on the US so late in the game? Why do you need another enemy? Especially when there's no euphoria of Pearl Harbor anymore to rally with Japan.

That's a good question. I recall Germany making some threat to the US to quit sending arms to the Brits in 2F. Maybe Hitler is hoping that the US will be so busy with Japan, they will agree to stop the shipments rather than risk more fighting in the Atlantis. TR (talk) 20:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm having trouble thinking of reasons. Though not as much trouble as I'm having thinking of ways to cook Hitler's goose with purely conventional weapons within a year-ish of the last book's closing that don't involve things like "zillions of American soldiers show up out of nowhere." Anyway, I'm glad the cocktease is finally ending. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }

My theory is that like TR said, Germany was making threats against US support in 2F. Maybe this support starts causing the German Army in Belgium some pain, and Hilter makes a desprite gamble. Stop giving supplies or face war. I can easily imagine FDR saying 'No,' and Hitler having no choice but to follow through with his threat because he can't back down, not while things are going so badly for him. The last thing he needs is to look weak.Mr Nelg (talk) 09:51, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

And building on this: on paper, it's not that much of a gamble for Hitler at this point as Japan has the upper hand in the Pacific. Rationally speaking, it seems unlikely that the US is going to divert resources badly needed in the East just to smack around Germany for declaring war. But, it's also a bad political decision at home for Hitler since the Germans clearly remember how that fresh round of troops in 1917 and 1918 just became the last straw. Yeah, that sounds like a gamble Hitler would make. TR (talk) 19:41, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

So you're suggesting Hitler declares war as a bluff, but ends up bluffing his own people into overthrowing him? That's one way we could bring this still very-much-in-the-air war to a rapid conclusion that does not involve a bang.

Basically, yes. There is also the probability that Germany will shed a few more allies, which won't help. (Yes, I'm still banging the "Smigly-Ridz must die" drum.) TR (talk) 16:54, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

You know, I'm with you on that one. Looked at some maps and I realized that a big chunk of the place we call Ukraine and our parents called the Ukrainian SSR, was technically Poland prior to WW2. So maybe the Soviet push gets across this timeline's Polish border and the Poles back out. Maybe Romania folds first. Hungary held out longer. But I'm still perplexed why isn't Poland this war's Finland, a more involved German ally useful along the long Soviet border.JudgeFisher (talk) 18:44, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

It feels a bit cheap, though, especially since both war with the US and overthrow from within have been constant teases for the past five years. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:59, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

Your mileage may vary of course, but I'd personally be OK with it. It's internally consistent with what HT has done, plus it's pretty consistent with OTL (i.e. Hitler declared war in OTL because he just assumed the US wouldn't pay much attention to Europe, and so there would be no cost to him). TR (talk) 16:54, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

4. What will Jezek do? Almost pot Sanjurjo?

That could be a reference to Jezek having already killed Franco (who was more important to the Nationalist victory in OTL than Sanjurjo was, obviously.) Or maybe he does hit Sanjurjo. TR (talk) 20:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

I'm still thinking perpetual stalemate, and still wondering why it's part of the story at all. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

With Chaim missing most of his hand, I hope HT takes the opportunity to give us insight into how the Republic is running. TR (talk) 16:54, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

5. I wonder if the scientist's secret is that they worked on the bomb anyway. Herb is staying in Nevada, and maybe Nellis AFB becomes this war's Los Alamos.

I hope not.

There are sciences other than nuclear physics, and since Peggy's been devoting herself almost entirely to smoking and the rationalization thereof, learning of the carcinogens in cigarette smoke would throw her for a bigger loop than anything atomic could. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Maybe they use radioactive dust to poison the Japanese....nuclear/chemical warfare?JudgeFisher (talk) 18:44, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I had a similar thought. Japan's liberal use of bio-chemical weapons is probably going to prompt a similar response from the US. So some scientist sharing some hint as to the newest and ugliest germ makes sense. TR (talk) 19:46, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

6. Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment but I wouldn't mind seeing this continue in a post-war world because:

• No Israel

No, I suppose not. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

• No Iron Curtain (from the Communists at least)

I don't know, they could go on a tear all of a sudden. If nothing else, Poland and the minor ThirCo members are in for a world of hurt if Germany suddenly drops out. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

• Kuchkov replaces Kruschev in this timeline. (I'm stretching it a bit far, I know)

(snicker)

Instead of "We will bury you" he'd say something in mat. In all seriousness, I hope he keeps doing some more exciting stuff, but he sure won't be hoisting the red banner over the Reichstag. I still hope he gets Baatz. JudgeFisher (talk) 18:44, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

I've been having more fun reading Kuchkov's scenes than I'd expect considering that everything he sees is something HT has described hundreds of times before. Doesn't mean I particularly care what happens, or that I'd feel any sort of loss if he died in his very first scene in NwaB. Now Baatz, on the other hand, I'm very invested in his fate, and will accept anyone killing him, anyone at all. I can't figure out why Dernen never shot him in the back when he had the chance. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:59, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

• No decolonization
  JudgeFisher (talk) 16:01, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

The main model for peaceful decolonization was based on Atlee's partnership with Aung San Bogyoe. From Fujita's scenes the political situation in Rangoon seems quite close to OTL. That can't be said of London, of course. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah, oddly I, too, am looking forward to the post-war possibilities than I am to the finish of the war. TR (talk) 20:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

Much depends on the nature of the ending but I don't anticipate missing this one. Looking back on the last five years, I'm left with the impression of a story aimlessly shuffling along to whatever stopping point it happens to reach. The few times it's hooked my interest, it's led directly into an unsatisfying version of catch and release. So I won't feel the lack one way or the other. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:57, October 26, 2013 (UTC)

"In Philadelphia, an American woman meets a scientist who reveals a momentous secret." What could that mean? Zhukov15 (talk) 23:40, October 24, 2013 (UTC)

LEO SZILARD: "We told your husband to go fuck himself and kept building the bomb."

PEGGY: "Good."

Ok, probably not that. TR (talk) 00:03, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

More like "Hey miss can you spare a dime? I used to work in a nuclear physics lab until some efficiency expert shut us down."

In all seriousness, Szilard and the gang escaped Nazi Germany's clutches to come to the U.S. and build the bomb. Would they consider pulling a Columbus and going somewhere else to offer their talents? UK and France are too unreliable, Stalin's no bargain, but at what price to stop Adolf?JudgeFisher (talk) 16:01, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

It's probably overstating it to say they came here for the specific purpose of the building the bomb. I think nearly all of them would be just fine being American citizens, bomb or no. TR (talk) 20:56, October 25, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know if I am right or wrong, but I always thought all those scientists came to the US so that prevent the Axis would have the A-bomb first. So maybe, emphasis on maybe, Szilard or one of his buddies go to someone else with a proposition to build a bomb for them.

No. Most came to the US because they saw where things were headed in Europe, not for the specific purpose of the A-bomb. That was an unexpected bonus of their arrival. Szilard had been here a whole year before he conceived of the bomb in the first place.

Nor are they going to go some place else to build a bomb, since all the remaining belligerents are far less palatable than the US. TR (talk) 20:18, October 28, 2013 (UTC)

I don't feel as bad stretching the possibilities in this series, since HT has already stretched them thin - Niels Bohr and Oppenheimer were at one time suspected of being socialists. Bohr was watched very closely after the war for proposing nuclear arms control. What if here he proposes building the bomb, and the US says "put a lid on it" - would they leave then? Fat chance, I know. JudgeFisher (talk) 18:44, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Wasn't there a play some years back that dramatized some sort of debate between Bohr and Heisenberg on the ethics of atomic research in Germany? (Wow, just typing that sentence has me yawning. If there ever was such a play, no wonder it's been forgotten.) Turtle Fan (talk) 19:59, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Yup, it was called Copenhagen. Adapted into an even worse PBS/BBC movie.JudgeFisher (talk) 20:06, November 1, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, that sounds about as exciting as . . . Damn, I can't even come up with a suitably ironic simile. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:32, November 2, 2013 (UTC)

New Title?

So it appears that this book is getting new, less cumbersome title: Last Orders.[1] FYI. TR (talk) 04:51, December 20, 2013 (UTC)

I like that better. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:04, December 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ukraine

What with all the craziness going on in (the) Ukraine [apparently some Ukrainians take offense to the "the" in front of the Ukraine.], I've somewhat educated myself on the history of the place. It would appear that the Stepan Bandera organization had a lot of beef with the Poles and most of the activity went on in Western Ukraine/former Austro-Hungarian Galitzia province with the Banderists fighting the Poles and the Soviet takeover of the region. In the TWTPE timeline, western Ukraine is a solid part of Poland. Therefore it's unreasonable for Kuchkov's unit to encounter Ukrainian nationalists in central and eastern Ukraine. I hate to say it, but I think ol' HT is getting sloppy. JudgeFisher (talk) 20:29, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

I reviewed and that appears to be an error on our end. The Kuchkov scene takes place west of Kiev, so the presence Banderists is geographically "ok". I've clarified the article.

However, after doing a review of Bandera's life, I did find something mildly interesing: Bandera was imprisoned in 1934 in what was then Poland, and was not released until September, 1939, after the war was on. It's not even clear who released him at that point.

Granted, in the TWTPE, Poland certainly had more important things to worry about from December 1938 on than whether Bandera was still in prison. In OTL, some of his followers tried to break in him out in 1938, but failed. Maybe they had better luck in a second attempt in TWTPE. TR (talk) 21:45, June 10, 2014 (UTC)

Interesting, albeit mildly so. That does appear to be about all this series is good for, doesn't it? Lots of "Wait a minute, wasn't he supposed to be over there when the shooting started?" We've had so little discussion of this book, after all. I don't know about anyone else but I'm just going to read it for old time's sake, shrug, and barely even notice that the series is over. Turtle Fan (talk) 03:12, June 11, 2014 (UTC)

The PB of 2F drops on Tuesday. Presumably, there will be an excerpt from LO included. That same excerpt may be available on-line before Tuesday. That might prompt some more discussion. TR (talk) 17:59, June 12, 2014 (UTC)

First 76 pages available

Here TR (talk) 16:34, June 15, 2014 (UTC)

I'll try to take a look this week. 76 pages is a rather large excerpt, isn't it? (Maybe not relatively, I really don't remember what it's been for others. But in absolute terms, that's a lot.) Turtle Fan (talk) 03:10, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Last round of predictions

Since we have 4 weeks until this drops and since the opening 76 pages didn't really give us much on the macro-level other than Lemp sinking a British ship carrying something REALLY BIG, I'll throw out my last round of predictions by country and kind of in the order I think things will go:

I still haven't read the teaser, once I do I'll throw in my two cents, if only for tradition's sake. Till then I'll say everything you've written rings true enough. Turtle Fan (talk) 03:16, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

Seems I waited too long. I couldn't find the excerpt, it may not be up anymore. I'll weigh in just the same; I'm at a bit of a disadvantage in my guesses, but from what you say it doesn't sound like much of one. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Poland

Smigly-Rydz finally dies, causing chaos in Poland. With the Red Army advancing just fine, the Polish government decides it wants out of the war and begins making a separate peace with Stalin. German forces and Polish forces go to war, which is something Germany just can't afford at this juncture.

The price for peace with the USSR is losing territory to Ukraine.

Yeah, that sounds fine to me. There might be a sizable anti-Soviet minority that remains active within the rural parts of the country. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Germany

With Poland falling out of the war, Germany loses yet another ally. Based on the summary, Germany declares war on the US (presumably because the US keeps shipping stuff to Britain) on the erroneous assumption the US can't send troops to Europe.

Whether the US wades ashore or not, this decision, combined with Poland's defection, prompts the German people to rise up (again, per the summary). Things also start going badly in North Africa.

A revolution finally unseats (or kills) Hitler. Given HT's tweedoms, I'll posit Carl Goerdeler and oh, say, Rommel as the point-men. There's a brief counter-insurgency led by good old Walther Model, but it fails. For an added wrinkle, I suggest that the USSR, remembering that the Kaiser shipped Lenin into Russia in 1917, decide to ship Walter Ulbricht into Germany in the hopes causing Germany to collapse faster. The series ends with the Goerdeler faction hanging on just barely.

Naturally, Germany withdraws from several places, including Scandinavia and the Low Countries. It doesn't quite withdraw from Austria or the Sudetenland.

Well, I hope you're right about this one. If Hitler's defeat is entirely external, this series will turn out to have been a six-year-long cock-tease.

I wonder if the uprising might come from a broad coalition of anti-Hitlerites who, with their common enemy eliminated, begin grinding axes against one another? If so, presumably each will seek out supporters among the major Allied powers. We could end up with a partitioned Germany or with a civil war that turns into a proxy war. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

United Kingdom

With Germany out, the military lets elections take place in 1944. While the British don't put Wilson and his Conservatives back in, they aren't keen to let the Cartland faction have the reigns either, given their connection to the coup, so they turn to Labour and Attlee. Conservatives who opposed Wilson but can't agree with Labor defect to the Liberals, making it somewhat more viable than in OTL. One of Attlee's first tasks is making sure no coup can ever take place again.

I like the idea of Cartland becoming PM, but I don't see how under these circumstances.

The UK finds a way to get back Gibraltar. I think Turtledove holds Auchinleck in higher regard than Montgomery, so I think North Africa will see a turn around, which will play its role in knocking Germany out.

I would say Atlee is a lock for victory in the next election, which may lead the junta to drag its heels long after the war ends, potentially with disastrous results. The Liberals making a comeback rings pretty true as well; deeply internally divided parties tend to fall in the face of vigorous and viable alternatives on multiple fronts. HT might hint that the Conservatives and Liberals are beginning to recreate the Republican/Socialist dynamic of TL-191, which would have a certain irony seeing as how the fall of the GOP in that timeline was based on the fall of the Liberals in OTL. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

France

The Third Republic takes a leftward turn in response to Daladier's bizarre decisions during the war. Leon Blum succeeds Daladier (or not, but that drop about Blum in 2F sure seemed "pointed"). Perhaps the military decides Blum's too leftist and the Third Republic collapses in a parallel to the Fourth Republic's collapse in OTL. France neither gains nor loses territory.

I haven't given France much thought throughout this series at all, actually. They seem to watch Britain act, hem and haw for a while, then say "What the hell, we'll do that too." Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Spain

Two thoughts: 1) Jezek finally kills Sanjurjo, and the Nationalists just collapse without their figurehead (Franco's death is really the key, but only the readers will know that), with the Republic developing ties to the USSR; or 2) The both sides opt for ceasefire and Spain is divided into two states. The Republic has some ties with the USSR. The Nationalists install Juan III.

I'm still firmly of the belief that the Republic will not win the civil war. We've been predicting that for years now and they never make any real progress toward final victory. I still say stalemate. Ceasefire and partition is an interesting thought, but the thing with that is, rival governments that agree to a partition never intend for the new border to be permanent; they always, always just say they'll go along with it so they can have some time to lick their wounds and restart hostilities once they believe they've attained a decisive advantage. Also, the Republic's only reliable friends are all a long way away from it, and Spain's neighbors should all be friendly to the Nationalists: Even under Labour the UK won't support the Republic against anything less than a Hitlerite ally (I am assuming the Nationalist leadership rapidly changes its stripes after Allied victory, as in OTL; and I believe this is a fair assumption because, even with their best leader out of the picture, it's such an obvious thing to do.) France under Blum offers a glimmer of hope, but after the Big Switch and the Big Switch Back, as well as Paris's willingness to wash its hands of the Czech government-in-exile during the former and, for that matter, fact that the Little Entente faded away to nothing when the war Came Early to begin with, the Republicans would know better than to rely on any long-term promises Paris might or might not make.

So Spain, unlike, say, Korea, is not in a part of the post-WWII world where equilibrium of geopolitical pressure would lock a partitioned state in place long-term. In a long ceasefire the Nationalists would grow steadily stronger until they could eventually overwhelm the Republic. Therefore it seems to me that the Republic's best move is to keep the stalemated civil war going indefinitely so that it cannot be caught unprepared. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Japan

HT has made it clear Japan has gotten this far purely on luck. Their resources are completely taxed and nearly anything can cause the whole thing to collapse. I propose Germany falls out first, then the US starts using bioweapons themselves (HT made a big deal about that desalinization plant on Midway), then the USSR begins to move back on Vladivostok. Japan withdraws on multiple fronts and concentrates on its holdings on Asia proper, including China. No island hoping for the US, no Operation Downfall, just another ceasefire. Tojo is replaced but the militarists still run the show.

That has a ring of truth, though it would be nice to see HT actually have the bastards get punished for a change. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

United States

The US finds itself at war with Germany. Despite things going badly in the Pacific, there are still enough resources to put together an AEF. I think Germany falls out before US troops actually do anything dramatic in Europe. Maybe there's action in North Africa, but I think the fact that the US is coming at all is enough.

In the aftermath of victory, FDR opts not to run again, supporting Henry Wallace. The split in the GOP continues; while many people are "ok" with a continued status of preparedness in the Pacific, they are disgusted with the big switch and desire cutting off entangling alliances with Europe. Robert Taft gains more votes than Landon did in 1940, but he and the mainstream Republican candidate (say, Dewey) cancel each other out and Wallace wins. Alternative theory--the GOP doesn't split, Taft gains enough momentum on the isolationism, and beats Wallace. Really, HT could go either way here, and I'd probably buy it. I also admit, I don't want FDR to run again in 1944, just for some variety, and Turtledove has kind of teased both Wallace and Taft as president in other works.

I agree on Paragraph 1. Paragraph 2 I can see happening (the Taft variety, more specifically) if and only if there's a decisive victory over Japan before the campaign season begins. If things are heading in that direction but are not there yet, I think Roosevelt will seek and win reelection by trotting out the ol' horses-in-midstream chestnut. If things aren't so rosy out there you'll have pressure for Roosevelt to step down and let the Democrats run someone who would seem to breathe fresh new life into the war effort while holding strong interventionist credentials--very loosely resembling, if you squint, the perception in GOP circles back in '08 that McCain could inspire more confidence in the attainability of a favorable outcome in the Iraq War than Bush could.

It wouldn't be Wallace, though. FDR had faith in him but he was just about the only one. I think the Democratic convention would insist upon a more centrist choice. Hopefully not Truman, because, again, variety is the spice of life. Maybe HT will give us President Hull a second time? Maybe, I don't know, Sam Rayburn? Maybe Lyndon Johnson? The latter would be interesting if his opponent is Dewey: a 36-year-old versus a 42-year old. Youthful vim and vigor as both parties' go-to in the face of the perception that Old Man Roosevelt ain't what he used to be. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Italy

Germany falls out, North Africa turns into a giant shitfest for Italy, and King Victor Emanuel invites Mussolini to step down as in OTL. Since Germany can't invade Italy as in OTL, Mussolini remains under arrest, and everyone does their best to pretend he wasn't running the show for 20 years.

For awhile there I was interested to see that HT seemed to be having Mussolini as a much shrewder statesman than in OTL. If that had continued I was half-expecting him to bail out on Hitler and reinvent himself as a pragmatic Fascist the Western Allies could live with, in the mode of OTL Franco. But HT didn't keep it going, so yeah, you must be right. No one's going to bother to wring indemnities out of Italy or anything, so they'll be able to pretend the whole thing was a bad dream and get on with their lives. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Czechoslovakia

I think a rump Czech Republic comes into being, as I don't see the USSR in the position to liberate as in OTL; in an odd sort of way, the Munich Agreement is completed after all, because Germany wants out of the war and Western Allies really can't force Czechoslovakia back together. The government in exile goes back to Prague, glaring at Tiso and his republic across the boarder, and begins building ties to the USSR, it's only consistent ally, while giving the finger to the West.

Sounds good to me. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Hungary & Romania

Both also bail when the Poles do. Hungary remains basically unscathed. Romania gives up Bessarabia to keep the USSR from rushing in. Antonescu continues to co-rule Romania, but some commie punk named Ceaușescu starts shooting his mouth off.

China

Japan continues its presence on mainland China at the series end. Nobody's really in the position to push it off the way Turtledove has written things.

No external rescue seems possible, but given time China's quite capable of outlasting Japan and liberating itself. I guess it largely depends on how hard a kick in the teeth the Japs take as their other wars fizzle out.

If Japan's been pushed back from US interests and the '44 election gives us Taft or another quasi-isolationist (there won't be any true isolationists so long as loose threads continue to need tying up) the US might say "Let's give all kinds of material aid, possibly including bio-weapons, to the Chinese and let them kick the shit out of Japan for us." The Soviets, who need to consolidate whatever Eastern European gains they've made, but also want revenge against Japan and know they need to match America in this area if they want the Comintern to have a chance of taking hold in East Asia, say "Yeah, we were going to do that, too." This opens two very different possibilities: Either Washington and Moscow develop an increasingly cordial relationship through cooperation in this venture, or the fact that they're supporting Chiang and Mao respectively causes their heretofore at least slightly cordial relationship to deteriorate. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

I guess that's it. TR (talk) 23:27, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Oh, wait:

USSR

Stalin doesn't go anywhere, the country gains parts of Poland, Romania, regains Vladivostok, and retrenches. Stalin plants shallow seeds of revolution in a few places, Germany in particular, but nothing too dramatic, and contemplates closer ties to Czechoslovakia, Republic of Spain (whatever form it takes), and perhaps even the US, the only remaining power that didn't invade the USSR in the last five years.

What? Uncle Joe doesn't emigrate to the US and run for President despite not being a natural-born-citizen? ML4E (talk) 19:51, June 30, 2014 (UTC)

I believe relations with the US are the key variable here, and I could see those relations running the gamut from friendly to nasty (but not quite so nasty as in OTL). So many factors that go into it. Maybe if I'd gotten to the excerpt in time I'd be able to narrow that down a bit. Turtle Fan (talk) 04:31, July 1, 2014 (UTC)

Now that's it. TR (talk) 16:50, June 26, 2014 (UTC)

Look inside now possible at Amazon

For those who are curious: http://www.amazon.com/Last-Orders-That-Came-Early/dp/0345524713/ref=pd_sim_sbs_b_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0JVTBG3Q0XP5YHP0D1TY TR (talk) 17:52, June 28, 2014 (UTC)

Early Drop

Last afternoon I stopped off at a bookstore to see if the trade paperback of Two Fronts was available so I could read the excerpt of Last Orders, as per usual. It was but Last Orders was also on the shelf a week and a half early so I spent a surprisingly pleasant evening skimming it. I will not add any comments here since that would be cheating but will wait until everyone else has a chance at it. ML4E (talk) 16:37, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, I did some word searching and name checking at Amazon, which confirmed and/or denied several of my predictions. TR (talk) 18:31, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

I should see if my library has it yet. Actually I should reserve it regardless of when they get it; I was actually fourth in line to read it last year. Somehow I didn't expect such a demand in one medium-sized town with no particular connection to anything that would inspire interest in AH. Turtle Fan (talk) 21:10, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

I have a copy on reserve already. I just checked and found there are 14 reserves for 17 copies that are still listed as on-order. ML4E (talk) 15:47, July 7, 2014 (UTC)

Seventeen copies in one library? Wow. Turtle Fan (talk) 17:32, July 7, 2014 (UTC)

Seventeen copies in one library system which has about one hundred branches. ML4E (talk) 19:09, July 7, 2014 (UTC)

Ah. That makes more sense. Turtle Fan (talk) 17:54, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

Guess It's Out

My library called yesterday, they're ready to release it to me. They'll hold it for a week and I'm almost finished the last book I borrowed, so I'm probably not going to pick it up till the weekend. Turtle Fan (talk) 15:08, July 23, 2014 (UTC)

My copy came in last night. I'm plugging along. Not bad. The Spanish thread is resolved at pg 150 or so. Still no insider characters. TR (talk) 16:02, July 23, 2014 (UTC)

The library called me yesterday to say my reserved copy was available for pick-up. I'll do so in the next few days and start re-reading in detail. ML4E (talk) 20:14, July 23, 2014 (UTC)