Talk:Britain

From Turtledove

No OTL comparisons in a regular article's body. Also, anytime something in 191 resembles OTL, it's not ironic, it's HT being lazy. Furthermore, the paragraph that was added to needs to be addressed--the powers' interests may have been moving in that direction but they were still pretty hostile as of the end of IatD, and the CP were being their usual brain-dead selves in underestimating the Japanese threat. Speaking of which, actually, we didn't do so much updating old articles after the series ended, did we?

Also, the Atlantis section seems premature. Britain is moving in the direction of taking sole possession of the mini-continent, and we know from the short stories that eventually they get thrown out. We could have seen it coming anyway, because thus far the series is disappointingly non-divergent from OTL, but as of the end of OA that's not the case.

Finally, I can't believe we've gone all this time without having a Discussion page on Britain. Turtle Fan 15:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

True, but the stories are published and are thus canon. TR 16:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I realize that there are people who enjoy HT's tweedom, and want to spend countless key strokes comparing and contrasting OTL and his various timelines. Please, create brand new articles to do this. TR 16:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

This out-of-order storyline is annoying for our purposes. At any rate, we should expand the section to include at least the Seven Years' War, and maybe then add "Eventually they became . . . " before the short story bit? Turtle Fan 18:12, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

That works.

I hope HT breaks pattern and gives us a name for that war. TR 18:32, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Which war, Seven Years'? It's clearly meant to be the same as the OTL conflict so we might as well use that name, though of course the spottiness of dates in the story doesn't really let us know if it was actually seven years. Or do you mean the Atlantean Revolution, for lack of a better term?

The lack of war names is tough for our purposes but when HT does name wars, I often sort of wish he hadn't. Case in point is the Second Mexican War. It has not the faintest of relationships with or resemblances to the "First" Mexican War (which was at another point called merely the Mexican War). Turtle Fan 04:57, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, the Seven Years'. There are some pretty critical differences--it definitively starts in Europe and the war in Atlantis wraps up in a very short time. I have a feeling that we're going to be changing that upon the arrival of UAS.

They've already named it the Atlantean War for Independence. TR 05:12, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Same story, different tune, though even that much is more than we could ask for in GW, for instance. Hopefully USA will be a more different story. Thus far, however, names, dates, and other details change, but it's still the same broadly: Europeans discover the new land, divide it among them, people from other continents go there only to be exploited by Europeans, Europeans make the new land look more and more like their home, including their rivalries, they start performing land grabs on one another, Britain emerges dominant until its own colonists toss it out.

They've already named a war that has sort of not happened--We really need to catch up to the short stories, methinks. Perhaps I should try to read them. Turtle Fan 06:35, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Should we move this to "United Kingdom"?

90% of HT work is set post Treaty of Union, so it's most accurately called the UK. England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland would continue, of course. The obvious downside is the almost overwhelming amount of redirecting that would need to be done. TR 02:27, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

"Britain" and "British" would automatically redirect to United Kingdom, wouldn't they?

Just the same, I'd rather not. We use the conventional short forms for nearly every other country. Most HT stories involving Japan are set in the "Empire of Japan," every Soviet Union story should go to the "Union of Soviet Socialist Republics," "United States" is "United States of America," "China" is mostly "Republic of China," et cetera.

Besides, there are articles and even stories in which Britain the geographical location rather than the political entity is invoked. I'm thinking of "The Horse of Bronze" and the Boudicca backstory in RB. Having one article under a title that can precisely serve as both geographic and political entity is useful. Turtle Fan 02:37, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Storemont

"It is governed by a parliamentary system with its seat of government in London, the capital, but with three devolved national administrations in Belfast, Edinburgh, and Cardiff."

The Belfast outfit was shut down a few years ago. The DUP claimed Sinn Fein was "cheating" and London decided not to let the kids keep playing the game if they would just fight over it. Turtle Fan 02:45, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

No, it is Belfast. The Parliament is located in Stormont, which is a neighborhood of Belfast. But Belfast remains the capital. TR 14:51, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

I wasn't saying that the parliament was located in Storemont rather than Belfast; I was simply using Storemont as a shorthand for the Northern Ireland Assembly, which met in Belfast. I was saying it isn't located anywhere, that it's been suspended and its authority reverted to the Northern Ireland Office. But it looks like it's been un-suspended at the moment. Turtle Fan 19:36, 4 May 2009 (UTC)