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  • JonathanMarkoff

    India has a millennia-long recorded history, with numerous forms of head of state and government. Since 1950, the head of state has been the President, and since 1947 the Head of Government has been the Prime Minister. Governments prior to 1947 were primarily monarchical, with the Monarch of the United Kingdom doubling as Emperor or Empress of India from 1877 until 1947.

    The following individuals ruled India during or after the point of divergence of one of Harry Turtledove's alternate history timelines. Most Turtledove PODs occur when India is a part of the British Empire.

    Many stories contain references to rulers who died before the POD. Stories set in the history of OTL may reference the incumbent ruler. These do not belong here.


    The British Mon…


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  • JonathanMarkoff

    Ruler of Hungary

    August 19, 2018 by JonathanMarkoff

    Throughout its history, Hungary has changed its form of government several times.

    The Kingdom of Hungary existed from AD 1000 to 1946. It was a power in Central Europe throughout the Middle Ages, but in the 16th Century, part of Hungary was occupied by the Ottoman Empire, a Principality of Transylvania, with Royal Hungary under the reign of the House of Hapsburg.

    In 1867, Hungary joined with the Austrian Empire, creating the Austro-Hungarian Empire, with the Austrian Emperor also holding the Hungarian throne. At the end of World War I, the empire collapsed, and Hungary saw a series of abortive republics (including a communist soviet) from 1918 to 1920, until the kingdom was re-established. Ironically, the sole head of state was Miklos Horthy…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    Ruler of Austria

    August 18, 2018 by JonathanMarkoff

    Austria has had several forms of government throughout its history. It was a margraviate from 976 to 1156, a duchy from 1156 to 1457, and an archduchy from 1457 to 1804. Throughout this period, Austria was a constituent state of the Holy Roman Empire. During the archduchy period, most of the Holy Roman Emperors also held the title of Archduke of Austria. In 1804, the Emperor Francis II proclaimed Austria an empire itself, and two years later, dissolved the Holy Roman Empire. The ruler of Austria was the Emperor of Austria until 1918. In 1867, the Empire of Austria was united with the Kingdom of Hungary, and this union was commonly known as Austria-Hungary. That union dissolved in 1918 at the close of World War I, and Austria became a repub…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    Throughout its long history, Persia, later known as Iran, has had a variety of governments, most of them monarchical in nature. Since 1979, Iran has been a republic. The fiction of Harry Turtledove has altered the history and government of Persia aka Iran in numerous ways.


    Under Khsrish I the Conqueror, the Persian Empire completely subdued the Yauna. While Persia remained master of the Western world four centuries later, its royal family was not immune to the temptation of kinslaying.


    King of Kings
    Khsrish I

    Numerous unnamed kings
    Marduniya

    Khsrish IV

    Kurash
    (Incumbent at story's end)

    The Iranian monarchy was overthrown in 1979 by the Islamic Republic, which was controlled by the Ayatollahs. In the 21st century, the international community overthr…










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  • JonathanMarkoff

    Ruler of Italy

    July 23, 2018 by JonathanMarkoff

    Italy has had many forms of government in its intermittent history as a nation. The most common head of state titles have been King and President, while the head of government has most often used the title of Prime Minister. Nevertheless, there have been occasional exceptions. Harry Turtledove has made even more changes to Italy's governing style in his fiction.


    In the home timeline, Italy's parliamentary republic, established in the 1940s, remained in effect more than 150 years later. In 2097, the incumbent Prime Minister was frequently criticized in the press.

    In an alternate where communism won the Cold War in the 20th century, the Italian People's Republic ruled with an iron hand, although not a terribly efficient one. In 2097, the Gener…


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  • JCC the Alternate Historian

    In the Southern Victory Series, we already know that the Central Powers (the United States, Germany, Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire) won both the Great War and the Second Great War against the Entente Powers (the Confederate States, the United Kingdom, France and Russia).

    However, wasn't it one of Harry Turtledove's original plans to have the US and the rest of the Central Powers lose the Great War to the Confederacy and the remaining Entente Power members?

    Here on this blog, we will discus what would've possibly happened if Turtledove chose his original plan to have the Entente win the Great War. An alternate-history-within-an-alternate-history type of deal.

    I will give my two-sense as well as provided other peoples alternate history…


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  • JCC the Alternate Historian

    In Joe Steele (both the novel and the short story), we obviously already know that Joe Steele would win his six presidential elections by landslide margins. However, we don't always know how many electoral votes and states his rivals got in the elections. So far, going by both the short story and novel, we already know some of the results for the loosing candidates in the six elections. They are:

    • In 1932, Herbert Hoover wins 59 electoral votes from the six states of Connecticut, Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Vermont. The short story mentions the states he won but the novel doesn't go into much detail on that. However, we should assume that Hoover still won the same states as he did in both the short story and OTL.
    • In 1936…
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  • JCC the Alternate Historian

    In the novel Joe Steele, the only two Republican Vice Presidential candidates that are either mentioned or presumed to have served as in OTL. They are Charles Curtis (who presumably served under Herbert Hoover as in OTL and attempted to run as his running mate again in 1932) and Frank Knox (who ran with Alf Landon in 1936 as in OTL).

    Since those were the only two Republican Vice Presidential candidates who were mentioned at all, I think we should speculate on could have been the running mates of Wendell Willkie in 1940, Thomas Dewey in 1944, Harold Stassen in 1948 and Robert Taft in 1952.

    After having a discussion with TR down in the comment section, we decided to have McNary and Bricker still be the GOP VP candidates to Willkie and Dewey, r…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Prime Minister of Canada (French: Premier ministre du Canada) is the primary minister of the Crown, chairman of the Cabinet, and thus Canada's head of government, charged with advising the Canadian monarch or Governor General of Canada on the exercise of the executive powers vested in them by the constitution. Not outlined in any constitutional document, the office exists only as per long-established convention (originating in Canada's former colonial power, the United Kingdom) that stipulates the monarch's representative, the governor general, must select as prime minister the person most likely to command the confidence of the elected House of Commons; this individual is typically the leader of the political party that holds the largest…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Governor of California is the head of government of the U.S. state of California. The California Governor is the chief executive of the state government and the commander-in-chief of the California National Guard and the California State Military Reserve.

    Established in the Constitution of California, the governor's responsibilities also include making the annual State of the State address to the California State Legislature, submitting the budget, and ensuring that state laws are enforced. The position was created in 1849, the year before California became a state.

    As of this writing, Edmund G. "Jerry" Brown Jr. is the longest-serving governor, surpassing Earl Warren's 10-year tenure in 2013.


    Earl Warren is referenced as the incumbent Gove…


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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The United States Attorney General (A.G.) is the head of the United States Department of Justice per 28 U.S.C. § 503, concerned with all legal affairs, and is the chief lawyer of the United States government. In cases of the federal death penalty, the power to seek the death penalty rests with the Attorney General.

    Under Article II Section 2 of the Constitution, the Attorney General is nominated by the President and appointed with the advice and consent of Congress. The Constitution is clear that the Attorney General may be impeached by Congress. As to whether the Attorney General may be summarily removed by the President, no provision of the Constitution grants this power. The decisional law suggests that the President has the power to remov…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Confederate States Secretary of War was a member of the Confederate States President's Cabinet during the American Civil War. The Secretary of War was head of the Confederate States Department of War. The position ended in May 1865 when the Confederacy crumbled.

    The Secretary of War, a Confederate cabinet position, was the chief officer of the Confederate War Department. Answerable to President Jefferson Davis, the Secretary of War controlled all matters regarding the Confederate States Army and Native Americans, and had the right to appoint as many clerks as necessary. This designation allowed the Secretary of War to create what eventually became the biggest department in the Confederacy. The President had the power to appoint and fire t…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The United States Secretary of the Interior is the head of the United States Department of the Interior, founded in 1849. The Department of the Interior oversees such agencies as the Bureau of Land Management, the United States Geological Survey, and the National Park Service. The Secretary also serves on and appoints the private citizens on the National Park Foundation board. The Secretary is a member of the President's Cabinet and is eighth in the presidential line of succession.

    While the Department of the Interior hasn't been front and center in Harry Turtledove's work, he has been known to make fictional use of it.



    Secretary of the Interior Term Party President
    Henry Wallace
    1937-1942 Socialist Al Smith
    Harry Hopkins
    1942-1945 Socia…



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  • JCC the Alternate Historian

    Has anyone ever had any weird alternate/future history dreams or thoughts they would like to share?


    My first alternate history dream (or more like a series of dreams about the same topic) that I'll partly share was called Y2K. The alternate history dream's Point of Divergence occurred on December 31, 1999/January 1, 2000 was about the Y2K Bug actually happening and the new millennium starting off with a huge bang! Millions to billions dead by morning with nukes destroyed most major cities around the world. The US Government was likely screwed since Washington, DC was hit hard by nukes. We survivors didn't even know if President Bill Clinton was either dead or in a vault somewhere safe. Most of us just presumed him dead along with Al Gore an…


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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Secretary of War was a member of the United States President's Cabinet, beginning with George Washington's administration. A similar position, called either "Secretary at War" or "Secretary of War", had been appointed to serve the Congress of the Confederation under the Articles of Confederation between 1781 and 1789.

    The Secretary of War was the head of the War Department. At first, he was responsible for all military affairs, including naval affairs. In 1798, the Secretary of the Navy was created by statute, and the scope of responsibility for the War Department was reduced to the affairs of the United States Army. From 1886 onward, the Secretary of War was in the line of succession to the presidency, after the Vice President of the Unit…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Head of State in Mexico is the person who controls the executive power in the country. Under the current constitution, this responsibility lies with the President of the United Mexican States, who is head of the supreme executive power of the Mexican Union. Throughout its history, Mexico has had several forms of government. Under the federal constitutions, the title of President was the same as the current. Under the Seven Laws (centralist), the chief executive was named President of the Republic. In addition, there have been two periods of monarchical rule, during which the executive was controlled by the Emperor of Mexico.

    The chronology of the heads of state of Mexico is complicated due to the country's political instability during the 1…

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  • TR

    The Chancellor of Germany is the head of government of Germany. In German politics the Chancellor is equivalent to that of a Prime Minister in many other countries.

    The office of Chancellor has a long history, stemming back to the Holy Roman Empire. The title was at times used in several states of German-speaking Europe. The modern office of Chancellor was established with the North German Confederation, of which Otto von Bismarck became Chancellor in 1867. After the Unification of Germany in 1871, the office became known in German as Reichskanzler, although it continued to be referred to as Chancellor in English.

    With the collapse of the empire in 1918, a republic, known as the Weimar Republic, was formed, with a presidential office replacing th…

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  • TR

    Seven Princes of Kuusamo

    May 13, 2018 by TR

    Just a quick list since Jonathan is on the Darkness kick. Gleaned these from Amazon search inside.

    • Jauhainen/Juhainen (TtD, JotD, OotD) (nephew and successor of Joroinen)
    • Joroinen (ItD, DD)
    • Parainen (DD)
    • Renavall (RotD)
    • Rustolainen (DD)

    Not sure how we want to handle the whole concept of the Seven Princes.

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Sultans of the Ottoman Empire (Turkish: Osmanlı padişahları), sometimes referred to by outsiders as the "Grand Turk,", were all members of the Ottoman dynasty (House of Osman), which ruled over the transcontinental empire from its perceived inception in 1299 to its dissolution in 1922. At its height, the Ottoman Empire spanned an area from Hungary in the north to Yemen in the south, and from Algeria in the west to Iraq in the east. Administered at first from the city of Bursa, the empire's capital was moved to Edirne in 1363 following its conquest by Murad I, and then to Constantinople (Istanbul) in 1453 following its conquest by Mehmed II. The capture of Istanbul was the end of the Byzantine Empire, and henceforth the Sultans added "Empe…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Governor of the State of New York is the chief executive of the U.S. state of New York. The governor is the head of the executive branch of New York's state government and the commander-in-chief of the state's military and naval forces.

    Harry Turtledove has fictionalized the New York Governorship as follows.


    Only two Governors are identified:


    • Franklin D. Roosevelt (Democrat) is Governor from January 1929 until July 1932, when he is killed in an arson fire. This happens identically in both the novel and the short story. He was probably succeeded by Lt. Gov. Herbert H. Lehman, but this is not stated.

    • Thomas Dewey (Republican) is incumbent in 1944, when he loses the presidential election to Joe Steele. This happens only in the novel; in the sho…

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The office of Emperor of the Roman Empire in the East (retroactively renamed Emperor of the Byzantine Empire) was never formally created, but instead gradually "spun off" from the leadership position of the original Roman Empire. In 330, Roman Emperor Constantine I moved his capital to Constantinople, the city formerly known as Byzantium, which remained the seat of power of the Eastern Empire after the schism with the Western subdivision. The Byzantine Emperors all claimed rulership of "the Romans" until Constantinople's fall to the Ottoman Empire in 1453 AD. The title of all Byzantine Emperors until the reign (610-641) of Herakleios, was officially "Augustus," although other titles such as Dominus were also used. Their names were preceded …

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Roman Emperor was the ruler of the Roman Empire during the imperial period (starting in 27 BC). The emperors used a variety of different titles throughout history, usually Augustus or Caesar. Another title often used was imperator, originally a military honorific. Early Emperors also used the title princeps (first citizen). Emperors frequently amassed republican titles, notably Princeps senatus, Consul, and Pontifex Maximus.

    The legitimacy of an emperor's rule depended on his control of the army and recognition by the Senate; an emperor would normally be proclaimed by his troops, or invested with imperial titles by the Senate, or both. The first emperors reigned alone; later emperors would sometimes rule with co-Emperors and divide adminis…

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  • TR

    This is a list of known presidential nominees in the works of Harry Turtledove.



    Election Candidate Won (Y/N?)
    1864 Unknown
    Y
    1868 Y
    1872 Y
    1876 Samuel J. Tilden
    Y
    1880 N
    1888
    (presumed) Alfred Thayer Mahan
    Y
    1892
    (presumed) Y
    1896
    (presumed) Thomas Reed
    Y
    1900
    (presumed) Y
    1904
    Unknown
    Y
    1908 Y
    1912 Theodore Roosevelt
    Y
    1916 Y
    1920 N
    1924 Unknown
    N
    1928 Calvin Coolidge
    N
    1932 Y
    1936 Herbert Hoover
    N
    1940 Robert Taft
    N
    1944 Thomas Dewey
    Y

    In The Guns of the South, Horatio Seymour is the Democratic nominee in 1864. Seymour wins.

    In both the short story and the novel Joe Steele, the eponymous Steele is the Democratic nominee in 1932, 1936, 1940, 1944, and 1952. Steele wins each election.

    In The War That Came Early, Franklin D. Roosevelt receives the Democratic n…





























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  • TR

    This blog contains the heads of state of Spain (in its various forms) that appear as characters in the works of Harry Turtledove. They may or may not hold the office of head of state in a given Turtledove work.

    Throughout most of its history, Spain has been a monarchy. The foundation for the unification of the modern state of Spain began in the late 15th Century by the marriage of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile, and the subsequent reconquest of the Iberian Peninsula from the Moors, with the final victory being achieved in 1492. The final unification came with the ascension of Charles I in 1516, who ruled over what came to be seen as Spain's Golden Age. The Hapsburg line ended with Charles II in 1700, and the Bourbon dynasty …

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  • TR

    The Secretary of State, appointed by the President of the United States with the advice and consent of the Senate, is the President's chief foreign affairs adviser. The Secretary carries out the President's foreign policies through the State Department and the Foreign Service of the United States.

    In addition, the Secretary of State retains domestic responsibilities that Congress entrusted to the State Department in 1789. These include the custody of the Great Seal of the United States, the preparation of certain presidential proclamations, the publication of treaties and international acts as well as the official record of the foreign relations of the United States, and the custody of certain original treaties and international agreements. …

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  • JonathanMarkoff

    The Speaker of the House is the presiding officer of the U.S. House of Representatives. The office is permitted by Article 1, Section 2 of the United States Constitution, although the actual process for selecting the Speaker comes from rules adopted by the House, rather than the Constitution. Generally, the Speaker is elected from the majority party in the House. The Speaker is second in the United States presidential line of succession, after the Vice President of the United States.


    During the Remembrance Era in United States history, from the 1880s to the 1910s, the office of Speaker of the House was monopolized by the Democratic Party. In 1918, the first election held after the Great War, this run was broken when a Socialist candidate, Seym…


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  • TR

    The Chief Justice of the United States is the highest judicial officer in the United States and is the head of the Judicial Branch of the Federal government (consisting of the Federal court system as well as the Administrative Office of the United States Courts, whose director the Chief Justice appoints).

    The Chief Justice is a justice of the United States Supreme Court, over which he presides. The other justices, called Associate Justices, enjoy considerable benefits based on seniority, including the right to assign the writing of an opinion in a majority if they are the senior justice in that majority. However, the Chief Justice automatically outranks all other justices on the court in this matter as well as in less substantive perks of sen…

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  • TR

    While the modern state of Russia was formed 1547, many historians consider the various monarchies that existed prior to 1547 when discussing a Russian "monarchy". These include the Princes of Novgorod, the Grand Princes of Kiev, the Grand Princes of Vladimir, and the Grand Princes of Moscow. It was under the Grand Princes of Moscow that a true Russian state was unified in 1547, with Ivan IV the Terrible proclaiming himself the Tsar of all the Russias. Peter the Great proclaimed Russia an empire in 1721, and successfully made Russia into a European power. The monarchy was overthrown during the Russian Revolution in 1917, and the reigning emperor, Nicholas II and his immediate family were executed in 1918. While there are a number of claimant…

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  • TR

    FLOTUS (for my amusement)

    February 11, 2018 by TR

    The First Lady of the United States is the official hostess of the White House, with ultimate responsibility for overseeing protocol at all White House functions. (In alternate history timelines where the seat of the Presidency is not the White House, we can assume that the First Lady performs the same function wherever the President does sit.) In recent years, it has also become customary for the First Lady to advocate on behalf of social initiatives, usually of a politically non-controversial nature. The position of First Lady is unpaid, and tradition prohibits a First Lady from being gainfully employed while she holds the post, for fear of an employer or contractor attempting to use her salary to influence the President.

    Throughout America…

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  • TR

    The Monarchy of England is generally traced back to Alfred the Great (849-899), the king of Wessex, one of several kingdoms in what is now called England. After asserting Wessex's dominance over rival kingdom Mercia, Alfred proclaimed himself "King of the English". His grandson, Æthelstan, was the first monarch to reign over a unified England. However, he retained the title "King of the English".

    In 1066, William, Duke of Normandy successfully conquered the entirety of England. William is generally considered to have been the first monarch to rule as "King of England" as opposed to "King of the English". In the centuries that followed, the role of the monarchy was defined and expanded. In 1542, Henry VIII was proclaimed King of Ireland. In 16…

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  • TR

    The head of state of Germany has changed at various times since the unification of the German Empire in 1871. The first head of state was the Emperor (Kaiser). After the Germany Empire collapse, the Weimar Republic was formed, with the Reichspräsident ("President of Germany" in English) replacing the emperor as the German head of state. While the intent was that the presidency would share power with the chancellor and the Reichstag, the instability of the Republic resulted in a very powerful presidency.

    In 1933, Adolf Hitler attained the office of chancellor (the head of government). Upon the death of President Paul von Hindenburg in 1934, Hitler also assumed the office of head of state, changing the title from "President" to "Führer". This ti…

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  • TR

    Throughout the majority of its history, France has been a monarchy and is generally considered to have begun with the Frankish Kingdom in 486. In 1792, Louis XVI was overthrown, and the First Republic was established. Executive authority shifted to a number of bodies throughout the First Republic, finally ending in the Consulate, which fell to the First Empire of Napoleon Bonaparte (who'd previously become Consul for Life) in 1804. Napoleon was overthrown in 1814, and made an ultimately unsuccessful bid to regain the crown the following year. In the meantime, the House of Bourbon was restored.

    The Bourbon Restoration lasted until the so-called July Monarchy of 1830, when Louis-Phillipe I displaced Charles X and proclaimed himself "Monarch o…

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  • Mr Nelg

    'Roo in the Snow

    July 18, 2015 by Mr Nelg

    Here's something I never thought to see.

    To answer this question, the east coast of Australia is in the grip of an Antartic Vortex.

    In plane English...  IT'S BLOODY COLD DOWN HERE!!!

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  • Zhukov15

    The Reconstruction Era

    After the Second Great War,or as it is known in these modern times:GW2,the defunct CSA was decimated.Most cities and towns(like Richmond and Lexington)were heavily damaged.A whole generation of men were lost in the fighting.The Negro population were horrendously reduced by the genocidal policies of Jake Featherston. In other words,the South was in tatters.

    And so,the Democratic US president Harry Truman(lead the country from 1948 to 1950) was the first one to start the rebuilding of the South...in the image of the US.Truman realized the South must be developed again to truly join the US of A.Without this visionary man,the process to allow people in the South for the US Congress and full-fledged citizens of the US would…

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  • Zhukov15

    Why I think Turtledove Is betraying his loyal Readership Turtledovians of the world,revolt!You have nothing to lose but your boredom!

    Hi,I'm Zhukov15 and I'm here to tell the truth.Truth is,Turtledove is betraying us.How you may ask.By neglecting Southern Victory.Ever since I finished Settling Accounts,I am hungering for more.But more isn't coming.For some reason,Turtledove hasn't continued the series like he should have,which would have garnered him more recognition.I know most of you are gonna disagree with me but SV is the work that makes the most of readers want more!But he isn't obliging them!Why you may ask again.Because he paying more attention to upstart new series.In my eyes,that is a serious betrayal.

    We all know the series ends wit…

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  • Zhukov15

    The Truth

    March 1, 2013 by Zhukov15

    Hi I was wondering if any of you when the latest turtledove book is coming out.

    July 23, 2013. TR (talk) 00:00, March 2, 2013 (UTC)
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  • Thelaughingvamps

    so as it says in the title, how do you think this should continue, so comment, i know there isnt a lot of people on this wiki, but tell me your ideas, i might be able to make fan fiction with them

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  • Srini

    Around 90% of the Blacks still left in The South (then CSA) in 1941 were killed during the war. A few thousand Blacks were actually still living in Richmond when the US army took over the city in 1944. Most Blacks who survived the war in exile decided to remain abroad; however, a small number returned to The South. Additionally, approximately 15,000 Blacks survived the concentration camps or survived by going into hiding. The overwhelming majority wished to emigrate and lived in US-administered refugee camps, remaining isolated from The Southern society. After 1947, most left The South; however, 10,000 to 15,000 remained, forming the basis of a new Black community. In 1950 they founded their unitary representative organization, the Central…

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  • Drgyen

    Here's another fanfic based on the Worldwar series: Worldwar: Discovering the Balance. This takes in the Stargate Universe in which the Race were 60 years late in arriving to Earth, but the invasion is fortunately averted as SG-1 with Asgard-based spaceships engaged Atvar at gunship diplomacy. In which SG-1 negotiated for the Race to leave Earth alone and settle another desert-like planet discovered by Stargate Command or their home planet is nuked with energy weapons from orbit.

    I really love the scenario of the story as to what if the Race had to deal with modern day Earth, in this case the Stargate Earth. Instead of outright destroying the Race, Earth's various governments decide not to and be simply "neighbors" with the Race, and a lengt…

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  • Drgyen

    Worlds at War

    January 16, 2012 by Drgyen

    Last year, I read a AH story on Fanfic.com and posted on the Spacebattle forum and http://counter-factual.net, which pokes a crossover with Worldwar with SM Stirling's Domination of the Draka and John Ringo's Legacy of the Aldenata series. It takes with the Lizards having their ass kicked hard with the much more technological prowess of humankind and the notorious Domination of Draka during WW2 and finally evicted in the 1960s thanks to a Draka-made biological virus laced in ginger. By the 21st Century, the story picks up with the Legacy of the Aldenata series with humanity offered by the Galactic Federation (in which they had also had approach the "Race") in fighting against aggressive and locust-like aliens known as the Posleen.

    Personally I …

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  • TR

    Playing with presidents

    July 29, 2011 by TR

    Term OTL Worldwar
    (POD: June, 1942)
    Joe Steele
    (POD: Summer, 1932)
    "Must and Shall"
    (POD: July, 1864)
    The Guns of the South
    (POD: January, 1864)
    Southern Victory
    (POD: September, 1862)

    March, 1861 to March, 1865
    Abraham Lincoln
    Same as OTL
    Abraham Lincoln
    March, 1861-April, 1864
    Hannibal Hamlin
    April, 1864-18??
    Same as OTL
    March, 1865 to March, 1869
    Abraham Lincoln
    March, 1865-April, 1865
    Andrew Johnson
    April, 1865-March, 1869
    Unknown Horatio Seymour Unknown
    March, 1869 to March, 1873 Ulysses S. Grant Unknown
    March, 1873 to March, 1877
    March, 1877 to March, 1881 Rutherford B. Hayes Samuel J. Tilden
    March, 1881 to March, 1885
    James Garfield
    March to September, 1881
    Chester A. Arthur
    September, 1881 to March, 1885
    James G. Blaine
    March, 1885 to March, 1889 Grover Clevelan…


















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  • ML4E

    Might want to continue the discussion here. ML4E 04:28, March 28, 2011 (UTC)

    Yes, good idea.
    So if I'm reading your last description correctly, the Bloc controls enough votes that anyone who doesn't have a majority government needs to include them in the equation, and that means making overtures. But if a leader gets too cozy with the Bloc, Anglophone voters will punish his party?
    Actually, if the Bloc is so committed to seperatism, how does it have MPs at all? Don't they need to take an oath of allegiance to the crown? The nearest equivalent I can think of in the Commonwealth is Sinn Fein: However many seats they win (five in last year's election) remain vacant because they will not swear their loyalty to a nation they are desperate to ge…
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  • Drgyen

    I have to put this topic up given the crap-load of that TD has been using throughout his work. So give a comment on rather TD's writings amuses you or annoy the hell out of you and think that he is going senile like a "grand pappy" reminiscing on old "wise" sayings.


    UPDATE 11/21/2012

    Here's some mediocre liners from Supervolcano I found on Goodreads.com.:

    It didn't feel too cold once he got used to it. He'd been in pools that were worse. What it would feel like come February was bound to be a different question, but it wasn't February, thank god.

    He muttered a stream of obscenities as he went. Maybe they were what made his breath smoke. More likely, it was just the cold.

    "Those trees weren't down two years ago," larry said in a voice that brook…

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  • Drgyen

    Is H.T. a old pervert?

    November 27, 2010 by Drgyen

    I'm posting this because HT keeps having SEX in many of his works. And I want comments on how you think about it.--Drgyen 00:18, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

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  • Historygeek1

    I just finished the third book Liberating Atlantis, thus completing the trilogy. I'm not sure if anyone will agree witth me, but I believe the series thus far holds great promise. What the series is to me is not so much a timeline of a mythical 8th continent, but the legacy of a famous family. Edward Radcliffe helped found the first settlement in Atlantis. Richard Radcliffe killed the Earl of Warwick (a.k.a. the "King" of Atlantis). Red Rodney Radcliffe was one of the most feared pirates of Avalon. William Radcliff ended the Golden Age of Piracy once and for all by sacking Avalon and killing Red Rodney. Victor Radcliff helped the English win the French and Spanish War, and later led the Atlanteans to victory in the Atlantean War of I…

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  • Historygeek1

    Personally, I really enjoyed the Timeline 191, or Southern Victory, series by Harry Turtledove. My favorite segments of the series were the Great War trilogy and Settling Accounts quadrilogy (That is the correct term, right? Quadrilogy?) However, as much as I enjoyed the series, I'd like to see where Mr. Turtledove takes it from here. We end the series with a sort of Cold War between Germany, the United States, and Japan. But what will be the result? A war in which two of the powers team up to conquer the other, or will it remain a three-way Cold War? Not to mention the new situation in North America. What will be the result of suddenly ending over 80 years of independence for the Confederate States of America? Obviously it will be a…

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